Dear Lencho Bati: Who are you uniting? 

7 mins read
By Girma Tefera
The big speech given by ODF leader Lencho Bati in the Seattle Ethiopian convention has already sparked controversy among Ethiopians worldwide. Some Ethiopians in the diaspora think he is a visionary Oromo leader with idealism and hope for unity in Ethiopia. That is fine and we should engage with his moderate views; compared to some left wing separatists. Anytime groups come around a table for dialogue should be applauded. But most us are still left scratching our heads on what exactly is Mr. Lencho planning to unite?
Most of us who attended the event or watched the video of his speech seem to be mesmerized by his charisma and his populist rhetoric. Lencho got many laughs from the crowd with his references to Prof. Mesfin’s age and his jokes that Oromos wanted to “take Wallelign” if Amharas don’t want him. But, behind all this comedy is the same old ethnic politics that we have come to hate about Woyane.
For example, Lencho depicted the political battle as being between ethnic unionist and ethnic separatists. But let us pause for a second. That is the same two narrow choices offered to us by TPLF!  In 1991, Meles basically told us “hey look at those separatist OLF and ogadens, they want to destroy Ethiopia but we TPLF will save you from them.” 26 years later, Are we going to fall for this same old trick? Are we going to repeat history again? Are we going to settle for backward Marxist politics that divide and define people based on temporary languages, by ignoring our complex and holistic identity as multiethnic Ethiopians?
When Lencho said “we are unionists,” the question on most Ethiopians must be who exactly are you uniting? Oromos and Amaras? What about around half of Ethiopians who are born with both or many ethnolinguistic ancestry? What about millions of mixed and non-mixed Ethiopians who simply do NOT want to identify with a certain narrow tribal label?
 Mr. Lencho, the main problem with the last transitional process in 1990s was not the lack of alphabet soup tribal labels sitting around the table. The problem was millions of Ethiopians were ignored and insulted when TPLF decided to exclude Ethiopians who are simply Ethiopians! That is why these Ethiopians rallied around Kinijit/Andinet in 2005 and voted out TPLF. We are not worried about replacing TPLF with another LF or ODF or a coalition. We want to remove the whole system that divides our people based on tribe.
Mr. Lencho, just think of Wollo province for a second, which is around 8-10 million and almost 10% of Ethiopia. If you are Wolloye, you will know that let alone ethnicity, even religions are mixed. Anywhere, you will find a person with a Christian first name and a Muslim father name or vise Versa. When TPLF re-drew our map, it was so confused that it had to put an “Oromo zone” in the middle of Wollo because people everywhere are mixed. After 25 years, woyane’s social engineering still has failed and many people in Wollo are proud of their mixed identity. Now, if you go in the middle of Wollo and shout “I am a unionist,” do you know how ridiculous you will sound? How can you ethnically unite a person who already has great-grand-parents from different ethnicity? Nature has already done the job for you sir. These people have been mixed for generations, way before your bogeyman Menelik was even born, perhaps even before 17th century, when Oromo speaking rulers reigned. For people in Wollo, it would make better sense, if you promise them to end this nightmare of ethnic politics that threatens to destroy their identity and divide their families. It is better if you promise them individual rights based on democracy and merit, instead of group rights that only benefits tribal elites.
I gave you only one example of Wollo, but you can go to every urban and other regions and you will find millions who are born mixed, some of them don’t even know it, thanks to being brainwashed by Woyane politics (and their OPDO and ANDM branches). These days even so-called “Amharas” have been brainwashed by woyane to think tribally. But you can tell how ridiculous these TPLF/ANDM Amaras are because they go to Welkait and wave the flag of Ethiopia and worship Menelik & Taytu. They are so amateur that they don’t realize their “Amhara hero” Taytu was Oromo and even Menelik’s mother was Oromo. This is how childish and confused the tribal politics has become.
Mr. Lencho, we need to end this ethnic politics nightmare and throw he whole woyane system in the garbage of history. We don’t need another ethnic unity formula. Yes, We realize some of your diaspora Oromo constituents are even more ridiculous and have dreams of independent Oromia nation. That is unfortunate that we have short-sighted and uneducated people. Let them try and die fighting for their mythical nation. Because we can not repeat history again and change the terms of our future. It is time we end our misery, bitterness and backwardness, and join the globalised modern world. The debate of Ethiopia’s future can NOT be between ethnic unionists vs ethnic separatist. The future debate is between ethnic unionists and non-tribal democratic forces, period.


Read Aloud:   Reacting to Lefort’s Article on the Ethiopian Crisis - Messay Kebede


  1. It is not appropriate to split hairs. He just wanted to say that his part’s vision is to stay with the rest of Ethiopians, contrary to other wings who want an independent “oromia”. Amharic is my first language and there is not any bias by what he was saying.

    Its such hair splitting that extends the ils and wounds of Ethiopia and Ethiopians. So, please for God’s sake, stop such hair splitting.

    Even if he has a second thought when he meant that, please don’t blow it as such as long as he did not say it openly as others say to destroy Ethiopia

    Such hair splitting is counterproductive

  2. Mr Girma Tefera

    The debate of Ethiopia’s future should not include separatist elements period.What ever Lencho Bati said… was too moderate. I believe we should applaud him and his ODF colleagues for coming half way to work with unity forces. Others like ONLF are also coming on board. There is no way out but to go along with this moderate proposal. I have no doubt that Ato Lencho bati would also recognize the rights and the identity of those of us born from mixed ethnic parents. He is just saying every thing (call it justice and equality ) is possible with in the boundaries of our own Ethiopia. Why aren’t we all for that? We should be forward looking. I would say the debate of future Ethiopia should be between ethnic unionists and non ethnic democratic forces.Mr Girma … you should put yourself on their shoes to understand their point of view.

  3. Mr. Girma;
    Please leave Lenco aside, and tell us how you would end the quagmire Ethiopia is in. If all Ethiopians are one people as you emphatically put it, why do we have an unending cycle of tyranny, war, famine and destitution? Where are the mixed (united) millions all that happens then?
    Denying the existence of a problem does not amount to solving it! If all the peoples in Ethiopia have melted into one, why do we have the 70+ languages, cultures, religions and the peoples that adhere to them? Let me ask frankly: what does people mean for you; the few vocal elites who want to be back to the reigns of absolute power, or the 100+ millions some of whom do not know even the existence of Ethiopia? (Who was the one who said that ethiopian population is not more than 500?) Are you from that group?
    If you are born without a tribe, it is not the fault of Lenco or any other group of people. But you can not speak for the rest of the peoples in Ethiopia.

  4. Great write-up. God bless you brother Girma Tefera.
    here Mr Lencho is trying to ‘outsmart” Ethiopians using the old and failed trick which is tested and failed so miserably.

  5. I am speaking as Amhara. To be honest, Oromo political elites are eloquent expressing their points, when I listen to Dr Dima, Lencho Leta, even Jawar, Ezikeil, T Ararsa, etc. Lencho Bati nailed it. I really hate when Oromo elites pretending they don’t understand Amharic properly, they speak better than Amhara people in many cases, listen to Dr Merera uses Amharic phrase expression interesting to listen to him. Lencho Bati has no accent, Please stop this joke that pretending that they don’t speak Amharic properly, but they never say they don’t speak English language properly, please stop running away from your own country brothers for political purposes, they changed Amharic names but they are happy to keep Arabic names or European names, which is shameful. For me as Amhara born and grew up in the south, I prefer people like Lench Bati than hardliners unity camp, I don’t like prof Mesfin, he is Dergiest, now all the hardliners are threatened by Amharas more than anything else, in time they will get over it just like they did about Eritrea and Oromos.

  6. His analogy of a “container” was also laughable. Ethiopia is more than a ” container.There is more to Ethiopianism or what Ethiopia is all about than a whacked up logical reasoning.Even if that was the case, who are you going to blame. The Oromos hand print is all over the place whether as head of governments or as fighting forces serving various governments. He also is delusional about Oromos being unified. The moyale borena oromo he mentioned doesn’t have that much in common with arsi oromo .So, better stop pointing fingers or play the blame game and stick to defeating woyane as one people regardless of our ethnic background.

  7. Lenco Bati is not the problem. It is those of you who took Lenco Bati so serious. He can tell you any he believes will add to his populist ego. He is nobody within the Oromo camp and does not represent any sector of the Oromo society now.
    He knows no shame. So, why fun his hollo idealism as if it is a view harbored by Oromos?

  8. Girma Tefera,
    Did the people of Wollo elect you to be their spokes person? I am sure the people of that area will disagree with you. As to designating an Oromo zone in Wollo, the reason is simple. It is because these people consider themselves to be Oromo. As to people of mixed heritage not wanting to be designated, I beg to differ. I am of mixed heritage. I was born in an Oromo region, so I am a proud Oromo. Why? Because I was brought up in that culture which I know is mine and own. Even my mother who by blood was a pure Amhara, never considered herself to be anything other than Oromo. She was so much meshed into the culture that the ‘Oromos’ didn’t even know she was an outsider. Who do you think she had problem with? It was her Amhara (neftegna) relatives as they tried to dispossess her before the land reform. As you may know, by its egalitarian world view the Oromo has adopted people of various ethnic group. And so,most people I know do willingly select their identity and don’t feel losing their identity “Ethiopiawinet’. So, you are trying to wish away a reality which can’t be willed away. Most people say, let’s be whatever ‘identity’ we are first and then we can come together and have an “Ethiopian’ identity second. What is wrong with that? The one thing you don’t want is to recognize Oromo as a separate entity with its own culture and world view. You You will not be allowed to deny that right.

  9. Mr. Writer, If you want to solve the problems of the Empire state of Ethiopia seriously. First, you have to denounce all the bad deeds of all past and present repressive systems. Second, make sure for yourself that the hegemony of the Habesha will not have place in Oromia henceforth.

    Calling the ghost of Minilik or crying for unity in order to sustain your previous privileges will not help any more.  We are in the 21st century.

    The real solution is mutual understanding and respect. Besides that be ready to give the necessary compensation for all subjugated nations since the era of Minilik.

    Blaming everything you hear and see will not help you and will not help your nation. The dark time of the Minilik’s era will not come back again. The rotten and inhuman systems of the invaders old neftengas will never reincarnate. The ghost of Minilik also will not defend the failed ambitions of his offspring.

    The main problem is your mentality and the culture in which you grew up. The mentality and the culture of the dark era of Minilik, Haile Selassie and Derg which are still influencing and confusing you. You need redemption. The Oromo Qubee generation probably can help you. But in the meantime it is better if you reconcile yourself with the reality of your time. You cannot turn back the wheel of history.

    My advice to you is: The empty akakii zeref will not help you. The ghost of Minilik also cannot help you. It is better if you accept the realities of your time and work on the democratic principles so that you will embarrass with dignity and respect the future multinational democratic Ethiopia without suffering under inferiority complex. Don’t forget also you and your ancestors having be suffering a lot as Gojames and Gondares under those inhuma systems of that empire state. From those systems you have inherited only pseudo prides, bad mentality and cultures under which you are still in custody. I wish that you will become free as soonas possible.



    Whether you like it or not we will build a new multinational democratic Ethiopia which will embrace all it’s citizens equally. We will assure that the Gada democratic principles will work in OROMIA and beyond that.

    The flag of those inhuman systems of your forefathers will be prohibited in the future Oromia and in the southern part of that country like the banners of Nazis and apartheid whether you believe it or not. Already it is underway. The Qubee generation don’t like even to touch it.

    The true multinational democratic Ethiopia will have its own flag and banner which will be decided democratically so that it will reflect the reality of that country.

  10. This is a comment on Gammadaa’s opinion above.

    Not long ago, I shared what I read about the Oromo and non-Oromo political history in Ethiopia. My conclusion form my reading was that starting Oromo and non-Oromo poltical history (you can say Oromo and Amara poltical history if you like) with the era of Emperor Menelik II is a misrepresentation. I feel that our discourse on the issue has to go back to pre Ahmed Gragn of the 16th century and Oromo expansion which lasted 16th and 19th century.

    The idea of going back to the 16th century and after is not to claim land now as some Amaras do, but to explore the extensive mutual assimilation and integration of the Oromo and non-Oromo Ethiopians including with the Amara. Once I read and reflected on this part of Ethiopia’s politcal history, my view changed – for the better. Now I see Ethiopia with a different light.

    Some of the historical events that made me re-think about Oromo issue are the following. Lengthy discussion can wait for the future.

    Where the Oromo settled during the expansion, not only the people who were occupied lost vast lands but also received the Oromo culture including their language. The vast population in central Ethiopia now speaking Oromifa appears to be descendants of families assimilated by Oromo occupiers. Some writers guess that helped to swell the Oromo population to what it is now.

    Ethiopian emperors let the Oromo absorb the totality of Choa (or Shewa) and a large part of Wello. Only Gojam and Begemeder were spared because of fierce resistance supported by nature such as Nile river and its tributaries, thick forests and rugged terrain and diseases that kept the Oromo at bay.

    Elsewhere there were attempts to integrate the Oromo to the Solomonic – Amara social and political life. Examples of such attempts include one during Susenyos and Fasiledes (both in the 17th century) and Iyassu I ( in the 18th century). When Iyassu was a ruler, a large Oromo population comprising farmers, labourers and soldiers lived in Gonder. The Oromo masses learned highland agriculture, assumed the material culture of christian farmers but also their language, religion, and political economy. Gonderian period was marked by political integration of the Oromo though it did not go as far as one would have liked.

    Integration does not mean the process went smoothly between the Amara and Oromo. The end of the 18 th century indicated the emergence of skirmishes between sovereign Amara and Oromom sub-groups (confederates). But the skirmishes never degenerated to serious conflicts. In effect, the power positions of the Amara and Oromo remained unchanged.

    History has also established that the presence of the Oromo – wherever it was – had never been questioned by the Amara or other Ethiopians. More importantly, there were always the Oromo on the side of the Amara.

    The accusation that’s levelled on Emperor Menelik needs a thorough historical investigation. Not only why history begins with his rule but also how he truly ruled Ethiopia.

    Emperor Menelik applied soft policy of spontaneous assimilation, integration of non-Amara ruling classes to the Amara ruling class and some kind of regional autonomy. Despite the widespread accusation of Emperor Menelik as oppressive to the Oromo and other ethnic groups, he took his policy of soft assimilation, integration and regional autonomy to new height when he designated Iyassu V as a successor of his throne. Iyassu is the son of Woizero Shoaregga, Emperor Menelik’s first daughter and Ras Mekael, an Oromo and governor of Wollo and close a friend of Menelik. That was an Amara gesture at its best which is not praised by most Ormos to this day.

    Contrary to the designation of Emperor, Iyassu was not crowned but governed from 1913 to 1916. As history goes, the nobility charged Iyasu with apostacy, alleging that he had converted to Islam and he should forfeit the Imperial crown. He was deposed in favor of Zewditu who became Empress of Ethiopia and Tafari Makonnen the heir apparent of the throne. Loyal to his son, Ras Mechael who believed Iyassu should be reinstated to the throne marched on Addis with tens of thousands strong, fought bravely for a full day but lost.

    An attempt by Ras Hailu of Gojam to free Iyassu from prison and reinstate him to the throne also failed. Ras Hailu whom Emperor Haile Selassie considered a security risk had had his own political ambitions, but not to the throne. Again, this gesture by an Amara to support a Muslim Oromo to become Emperor has not received praise by many Oromos.

    These two cases that amply prove the embrace of the Oromo by the Amara combined with the extensive contacts with assimilation of one another over the centuries suggests that the narration of oppression of one by the other is an exaggeration – if not misrepresentation.

    Emperor Haile Selassie who was crowned in 1930 after the death of Empress Zewditu is widely believed to be the main source of Amarization – assimilation . Some suggest that he distinguished himself from his predecessors whose conception of governance was based on personal relations and loyalty or in extreme case – domination. The Emperor was not sure that that was enough in a country with multi- ethnic groups and cultures. He was worried about the possibility of betrayal.

    As a result, Emperor Haile Selassie used force to centralizing internal administration using the 1931 constitution as a his source of authority. His first victim was Abba Jifar II of Jimma whose autonomy was guaranteed in 1884 by Emperor Menelik in return for tribute. Abba Jifar II was accused of raising an army to fight the Emperor and was invaded by imperial troops. Governorship of Jimma was given to the emperor’s son-in law. These kinds of invasions have taken place in the country not limited to the the Oromo. Gojjam, Tigray and Somali were also invaded in response to rebellion.

    A major historical change was the realization of “LAND TO THE TILLER” which broke the backbone of feudalism in Ethiopia and liberated millions of Oromo from bondage. That was an Oromo revolution as much as it was that of non-Oromo Ethiopians.

    In short, Oromos themselves and non-Oromo including the Amara have been and still are working to make Ethiopia a better country. I feel that they are succeeeding.


  11. We appreciate the people in Seattle who organized such a unique forum.

    Ethiopians are multi-ethnic people. Multi-ethnic democracy is achievable if arrogance of supriority and hate is replaced by respect and love.

    Most of gentle, wise, and well educated Ethiopians who do not have political ambition at home or abroad have been waiting for to see a civilized duscussion focused on reconciliation and forward thinking.

    People of Ethiopian origin in other cities accross the globe should do the same thing.
    I believe that most of us are tired of the voice a few loud toxic diaspora who preach violence and destruction.

    Backward-minded, selfish, arrogant people hate progress and work over the clock against those who try to create common vision for Ethiopia.

    Ethiopia belongs to God as Professor Mesfin said. The future is bright as Ethiopia is even marching forward even under EPRDF. Ethiopia would be a marvelous country when the transition to a democratic multy-ethnic and multi-party system ensures equality among its children.


  13. The spirit of most of the speakers in the conference illuminated a sign of peaceful reconiliation, wisdom, and bright vision.

    Most of the speakers were focusing on how to solve the problem of historically non-democratic government changes that keep Ethiopia in vicious circle of dictatorship.

    What a shame!!!!!!
    The concludion of the meeting as published by Abbay Media is a mild version of the same old toxic diaspora propoganda.
    There is only one small phrase that mentions peaceful transition.
    I believe that most of us who followed the speakers have beeen disillusioned.
    God bless Ethiopia.

  14. Girma Tefera you are a 100% byproduct of Tecle Yeshaw confusing and good for nothing. Do you understand the pressure and difficulties and challenges one like Lencho Leta can face from the Oromo majority who have been brain washed by saparatists.As an individual leaders of the Oromos they are doing their best to bring about a solution.what makes you still think that everybody should follow the witchcraft style of amhara which is responsible for all the problems Ethiopia is facing now.We will work for the unity of Ethiopia keeping in mind that the Oromos the Tigryans the Somalis the Gurages have the right to see their way and contribute towards the future of Ethiopia.It is a grave mistake and a disaster if you are still telling the rest of us that the witchcraft style embraced to this date by the Amhara elite which is a package of assorted lie,empty pride,arrogance,talk-no-work attitude,selfcentredness

  15. Mr Girma Tefera
    what I learned from your comments is that you are deliberately trying to undermine such courageous and patriotic individuals like Lencho Leta from moving the revolution into the right direction.If one finds the Oromos and the Tigryans making negative comments about the unity of Ethiopia it is 100% the outcome of confusion imposed on them by the extremist and evil minded politicians of TPLF and Jawhar Mohamed.To the contrary, if the negative and unproductive comment is originating from a person like Mr. Girmas Tefera which is on the go for the last 26 years,it is out of the good for nothing outdated whitchcraft ideology of Amhara. Whenever the revolution stars to step forward there will be an automatic negative reaction from psychopath like individuals as Tekle Yeshaw. I believe Mr. Girma as a product and by product of Tecle Yeshaw.There is no reason for Ethiopians to follow the failed Amhara ideology based on Myth-unfounded history lie witchcraft mentality.If we have to unite or reunite Ethiopia as Lencho Leta is trying to do we have to discard the unproductive ideology of witchcraft and come up with useful all inclusive refreshing ideas.It is time to dump your Myth and to face realty.At this point every one has become aware that 99% of the non productive information and comments is manufactured and distributed from the industry of witchcraft ideology.This ideology is responsible for the past and current crisis of Ethiopia because it is based on lies,unfounded history,hate for hard work,expecting and creating heaven without hard work.
    please try to reflect on the consequences of this witchcraft ideology for a moment and decide to discard it once and for all. It is time to redirect the journey without changing the destination,which is the unity of Ethiopia

    • @Gechu

      I dont think you know what you talking about . First stop associating your stupid whitchcraft ideology as you like to state it 100x to amharas . Deal with your inferiority complex tf you cant put your ideas in proper and meaningful way. You cant even give an example of whitchcraft ideology? stone head !

  16. What I mean by witchcraft is people like Tecle Yeshaw,Girma Tefera and you who created a society living in poverity illitracy tracoma etc and yet claiming Greatness and are not still ashamed of it. The worst is when different polictical parties like Lencho Leta try to make some progress, purposely or by default, the failed ideology of Amhara based on myth and witchcraft, will come out into the media netwrok to undermine whatever progress is made.This is what I mean by withcraft ideology.I hope I have made it clear how your backward behavior usually causes obstacle whether you realize or not.
    Just ask yourself who is sabotaging the anti TPLF struggle?

  17. Minilik was Oromo in his mother side but your big mistake is Taitu, she was Amhara please make sure you are writing correct historical facts. Thanks

  18. You can train the Monkey,the Dog,the Cat,the Monkey, the Horse, ….. even the Lion to fit into the Circus, but no one has proven success in training the chicken and the Amhara.

    Likewise,one can train Tecle Yeshaw,Achamyleh Tamru,Dems Belete,Henok Yeshitila,Mulken Tesfaw,… in anything but not in a skill that requires a team work.

  19. In todays Ethiopia the winners are the Oromo Ethnic group.1/3 of Ethiopia belongs to these people.And the irony is that these so-called Oromo ethnic group want more,want to destroy Ethiopia more,culturally,religiously…the names of the federal states should have been neutral and not named after oromo or amhara or somalia…Ethiopia is composed of many ethnic groups…what about the other ethnic groups are they not included in the nation…the maps of the federal states must be redrawed and renamed ,neutral from Ethnic group names.

  20. @Adhanom; what do you means by winners? Have the federal regions been distributed according to a lottery? Or from whom or in which competition did the Oromo got their region as a prize? Please turn your brain on (if you have any) before you try to write a comment. How should the regions be named? As Nazareth, Alem-Maya, Hagere-Hiwot, etc, as Haile Selassie used to Christen Oromo and other regions? Learn 1st what ‘democracy’, ‘federalism’, ‘human rights’, etc mean before you embark on teaching others about politics.

  21. This writer needs to go to a political school and study Politics 101 before writing and commenting on big issues. I read his full article but found nothing that gives sense especially in the face of where current Ethiopian political development is. Lencho clearly said that he and his long time comrades have dropped separatist agenda. To me this alone is a big boost to the future unity of Ethiopia. I don’t think the writer understands what unity is, or if he does, his notion of unity is the forced unity that we have for years.

  22. Dear Girma, I do share your views and care!

    Well, the Walelign generation was a pull of absolutely innocent Ethiopians who failed to critical of what the then Western politicians’ hidden agenda against Ethiopia. They have had disguised agenda. Failed to realize full conquest of Africa by their own ways, Westerns systematically infused ideas into the innocent Ethiopian minds.

    That very poison engulfed Ethiopia and brought us to this level.

    Basics of Western infused ill ideas were implemented using TPLF.

    I think we need to realize that eventually the aliens looked for traitors and guided them well.

    Yes, Tigrian Ethiopians has never delegated TPLF. But Tegray have had a number of rotten eggs (banda’s).

    Like the many other Ethiopians, authentic Ethiopians from the province of Tegray hated them. Yes, The banda’s were outcasts.
    In time banda’s resurged and relinked themselves with the aliens who ever since longed to dismantle Ethiopia and Ethiopianism.

    26 years ago, the rotten eggs were installed to rot Ethiopia.

    I think the ‘rotten egg’ analogy need to be elaborated. Humanity is like an egg. An egg is very likable! It is source of various nutrients as the same time source of life. But no one likes it when it is rotten. Rotten egg is absolutely useless and absolutely ugly. That is woyane. TPLF is a bunch of rotten eggs.

    The Westerns take full care of our rotten eggs (the woyanes) because they use them to demolish Ethiopia and Ethiopian identity. But eventually rotten eggs should be thrown away (be dumped). In due time US and UK too will dump these worthless eggs.
    Watch out, Woyane (TPLF), the bunch of rotten eggs will be dumped in due time. And it will never be remembered.

  23. Dear Gechu,

    Calm down! Comparing human beings with chicken. It doesn’t matter which ethnic group but your analogy is absolutely wrong. It can only tell how illogical, inaccurate and how nonsense your comments are.

    After all science has proven that human being is nearly equally intelligent. Theology teaches also just the same.

    I think you need to correct yourself and come back to your human senses. But if you are a TPLF junk or their care takers, good luck. TPLF junks are rotten eggs who willingly chose to be killers/looters/lairs/traitors.

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